Friday Sept. 24, 2010 | Paganism in Our Region

September 22, 2010 at 3:53 pm | Posted in Coming Up | 46 Comments

A sacrifice found at the centre of Nine Ladies in Derbyshire, England.


When we speak of religion and belief systems in our region, we tend to think of Christianity, Judaism or Islam but a large and growing number of our residents are inspired by religious practices far older than any Abrahamic faith. There are pagans, witches and heathens among us and they are becoming more vocal in defense of their faith and the legitimacy of their belief systems. We will meet a few of these folks to learn more about some of the earliest traditions in humankind.

Guests
Reverend Tony Brown
– Ordained reverend of a North American Wiccan church
Heather Darnell – Witch, member of the Reclaiming Tradition
Corbie Williams – Heathen, member of The Troth

Website mentioned during show: www.charlottepaganpride.org

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  1. Very interesting show topic. It’s a shame many of the local pagans weren’t able to have their Fall Equinox bonfire this week because of the very dry conditions in the region.

    There is an excellent blog I read every week written by John Michael Greer who is the Grand Archdruid of the Ancient Order of Druids in America. It isn’t focused on Druidism or religion per se (though sometimes he writes about those topics), but more about sustainability, economics, and other topics; check it out sometime – http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/ – “Druid perspectives on nature, culture, and the future of industrial society”

  2. I found out a few years ago that a friend of mine (who is now Catholic) used to be a Wiccan. I was shocked and was forced to reevaluate my views and beliefs on the matter. She also told me that her mother is a long time follower of Wiccan traditions and used to be a healer & leader of sorts as was her mother. Apparently it has been passed down through the generations.

  3. Breakfast flakes.

  4. Thank you so much for this topic. Sorry that “Tom” feels that there’s a show on “breakfast flakes”. He shows the attitude of many. My family and close friends know of my beliefs but I am not “out of the broom closet”. I live in the Bible Belt and KNOW that there are a lot of closed minds out “there”. I don’t feel safe coming out in the area where I live. But if you take the time just to learn alittle bit then you will open your mind to a very beautiful why of life.

    And I hate being told that we worship the devil…SORRY…I don’t even believe in the devil.

    blessed be

    • Where in NC do you live Jennifer?

      • small town in western NC

  5. Pagans are no more breakfast flakes than other religions (I could eat cereal all day.). Pagans are generally more in touch with our threatened environment and our bodily health, and so sometimes closer to the truth of what matters. It’s not like Wiccans don’t study other religions. Pie in the sky when you die (after a careless life) is flakie to me. Too much pie spoils the broth.

    It’s so good to hear from Van Durrett. I used to read your blogs on the Watercooler (closed, I guess). You have extraordinary judgment and insight for a young guy. Do you expect to be a sociologist or a writer?
    Are you smoking more now but enjoying it less? Best wishes.

    • “Pagans are generally more in touch with our threatened environment and our bodily health, and so sometimes closer to the truth of what matters.”

      I agree with that. Pagans definitely tend to be more environmentally-conscious than people of the Abrahamic faiths, and that is good. I’m not a follower of an Abrahamic faith or a pagan faith, I’ve got my own beliefs. But being of European descent I’m somewhat wary of trusting the Abrahamic ‘desert religions’ which come from a different part of the world than where my ancestors were from. Plus, many people in Europe were forcibly converted to Christianity under the threat of death, with innumerable people being slaughtered for refusing to convert – in this sense it was no different than Islam during its growth stage.

      It is interesting though how many parts of Europe held on to pagan beliefs for a very long time. Parts of Northern Europe such Estonia and portions of Scandinavia still had practicing pagans as late as the 14th Century I believe.

  6. Tell B not to forget to mention Circle Round!!

  7. RE Tom:

    “Breakfast flakes”

    Hey baby, Raisin Bran is good for you!

    • LOL… yep it is…

  8. North Carolina has one of the largest open-faced granite quarries in the world up near Mt. Airy.

    We need to build a mega-version of Stonehenge or other similar types of megalithic monument(s) here in our state – they don’t have to necessarily have to be based on a pagan religion, but rather we should build them just because they are cool. And make them align with the Sun, Moon, planets, and stars like most of those monuments do around the world – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_archaeoastronomical_sites_by_country

    • Your mind is an excellent place!

      • I agree Snooze… thanks for all of the great comments Realist, and for listening to the show. Nice to have good intelligent feedback.

        Peace,
        Heather

  9. I feel it is very important to study the roots of what you believe, but also to know what others say about what you believe. If you only listen to what supporters say, you are not truly invested in knowing and understanding your own beliefs. You must know what detractors say in order to research, study and decide for yourself if their points are valid. My fear for people of these fringe (for lack of a better word) religions is that they are mistaken in who or what they ‘serve’. Yes, I am a christian and will speak from my own personal bias… so I do believe in God and the devil, heaven and hell. I believe the Bible is true. I hate to say that these religions are evil because they seem to have some very good moral values… unfortunately good moral values will not get you into heaven. Please re-examine your faith. Not all christians are crazy strict conservatives… I’m fairly liberal… I just happen to believe the Bible as well. You can be both. And yes, yes… I know that I’m proselytizing, something you may find abhorrent… the thing is, if I truly believe than only those who believe and worship the God of the Bible will go to heaven, I am duty bound to tell people of this or they face eternal separation from all that is good. That is why christians evangelize, because we do think there is only one way and we don’t want anyone to be lost because they chose poorly. Take care and think about what I’ve written. It was written in love.

    • Well said Rebecca.

    • The problem with proseltyzing, even when done with good intentions, is that often disregards the right of others to believe otherwise in the name of “knowing what’s best for them”.

      The aspect of being “duty bound” to warn people that you feel their spiritual path is wrong inherently requires that someone must listen to you in order for you to discharge your duty. If I do not feel obliged to listen, where does the effort to do your duty stop?

      I have been chased down in a parking lot, had my walking path and car blocked, and had to start dialing 911 to get evangelicals to leave me alone while I was on the job. All of them have assured me that they were behaving so because they loved me and didn’t want me to go to hell. They maintained that they knew if they “kept faith and didn’t give up”, they would “break through” the evil that I had been infected with and I would “see the light”. Even the more polite approaches are still an infringement on my time and personal space, and indirectly an attempt to invalidate my judgment and usurp my right to believe according to my conscience.

      WWJD? This kind of insistence that a Christian MUST make someone “hear the word of the Lord”, whether they want to or not, even goes against Biblical directive.

      Matthew 10:13-14

      13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you.
      14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.

      This is an injunction to leave those who do not wish to hear the gospel alone, even to keep blessings to yourself and take nothing of that person, including memory, with you as you leave. To insist on continuing beyond that seems to me more based on personal pride of conquest than love.

      Heather “Snooze” Hamilton
      Carolina Grove, hedge witch and serving priestess

      • Oh, I totally agree with your comment on inappropriate proselytizing… I would never knock on someones door or hand out fliers on a street corner. My personal belief is that any such conversations about my faith must take place organically and be in context and typically with someone I personally know… not some random stranger on the street. In fact, I don’t even offer it up unless someone asks.. however as this subject was about religion, I felt comfortable expressing my beliefs. I think people that bang on doors or in any other way harass others are NOT living out the message of Jesus. But I do feel that I am to let someone know what I think when appropriate. I’m sorry you’ve had such bad experiences with the ‘other’ kind of christian… they give Christianity a bad name and turn many people off.

      • Thank you snooze,
        It has come to feel to me, that many are feeling the need to become almost militant in their proselytizing.
        I grew up in a church that proselytizing was a part of, and have been on both sides of the door.
        I truly believe nothing will change until everyone learns to listen to the other person more than they speak. I know I’m never going to return to the otherside of the door, that it isn’t right for me. I know I am a better more complete person than I ever was.
        I also know, that for me to feel this way, others must follow the good that is in their hearts. I may not agree with every other faith, but I know that at the end of this mortal show, it is truly between the person dying and their “Higher Power” what the end will be. If you “brow beat” 100 people into attending your church, and they didn’t really feel it, (They were scared into it) you have wasted your time, and infringed on someone else’s life. And “God” won’t love you any better for it.

  10. Rebecca, I think you do mean well, but you have no idea how dismissive of other belief systems your comments really are. I am Unitarian-Universalist and I believe very strongly that there are many paths to personal truth. To say that what works for you *should* work for everyone is extremely arrogant. I do not believe in heaven or hell, I do not believe in a Christian God, so your religion will not work for me. To tell me that I *should* be something I’m not (or pagans are not or Jews are not or Muslims are not…) is ridiculous. I truly, deeply believe you are wrong, Rebecca. My post is also written in love, so take care and think about what I have written.

    • I respect your opinion… and I in no way mean to sound dismissive. I guess to me, this is the truth and if I believe what I believe, then there is a heaven and hell. However, I am NO ONE’S judge. I can not speak to anyone’s personal relationship to God. That is between each individual and God. I actually usually hesitate to express my personal feelings on religion because I do respect others right to make their own choice. Free will and all… Also, because it usually invokes sarcastic remarks like your final ones, where you paraphrased what I had written. I do write in love… but it’s not really MY love… it comes from God… sometimes I could give a flyin’ flip what anyone else believes and whether they go to heaven or hell… then I remember my children (and believing what I believe) if I weren’t around and if no one ever told them about my God, they may risk eternal separation from Him… so I speak up on occasion.

      • My remarks were in no way sarcastic. Not sure how you got that. I was simply saying (using the same words you used) that you should think about the point of view of others as well. Your first post does not sound at all like you do respect other choices, because you believe yours is the only way.

      • I guess I feel that I can disagree with someone and think they’re wrong and still allow them to choose for themselves… It’s like any other personal choice… I put my kids in time out when they misbehaved, other people spank… I think those that spank are usually wrong, but they get to chose how to discipline their child. I think smoking is horrible for you and others don’t… but they get to chose… I like having that choice and I want others to have it as well. And I do listen to people and I have questioned my own faith at times, but as I researched more and learned more, it still makes the most sense to me. And thanks for the clarification… I’m glad you weren’t being sarcastic… sometimes it’s hard to glean someones intent form written word.

  11. Rebecca, and all others!
    You’re following a false religion! You all must don pirate garb and accept that the one true god is none other than The Flying Spaghetti Monster! Do this, or I warn you, you will burn in the sauce forever!

    May you be touched by his noodly appendage.
    Ramen!
    ———

    In all seriousness, as an atheist and skeptic, I find all religions equally absurd. Rebecca, your magical invisible fairy-godfather is no more or less silly to me than the Pagans with their pantheon of invisible magic men and women. I think religion is a fine thing for tradition and culture and a decent lens through which to view morality and ethics; but when you start saying that your beliefs are THE literal truth of the universe and that people who believe differently will be punished by your invisible magic man of choice, I have a problem. Especially when you start using government to push that faith on others.

    As for the Pagans and Wiccans, I generally had no problems with the community that I was familiar with via friends and relationships (albeit as an outsider, I never considered myself a true member). However, I did notice an interesting trend that without a central church authority, a few charismatic or egotistical individuals would rise to the top and become the de facto leaders. Those people always rubbed me the wrong way, and I felt like I wasn’t free to say “you know, I think so-and-so is a bit of a pompous jerk”, without causing repercussions for those close to me in that community. Has anyone within that circle found similar situations?

    • I hear you, however, I don’t believe I’m using any government agency to push my faith on others… I’m not sure where that came from… I firmly believe in the separation of church and state. I wouldn’t want anyone dictating what I can believe and I will not dictate to others… that doesn’t mean I am not free to express my beliefs to others, however, even then I would not continue to do so after someone has either asked me stop or had a negative reaction to what I’ve said.
      I would like to say that your comment about literal truth makes me wonder your take on the Bible. While I do believe the Bible is true, it is not always literal. Much of it is poetic and must be read as such. It must also be taken in context of what each book is about, who it was written for or to and who wrote it. I’m not going to try to convert you or anything 😉 your comment about literal truth just made me curious on your perception.

      • Oh, I didn’t say that YOU specifically were going to use government to push your beliefs on people; I only brought it up because church-state separation issues are so current (at least in the skeptic and Christian circles). I just see an obvious path from saying “Jesus is the ONLY way for salvation”, to legislating peoples’ morality “for their own good”.

        As for what I believe literal truth to be? Well, the universe exists, of that we’re pretty sure of. It was created in a rapid expansion of matter and energy and time about 14 billion years ago. This expansion resulted in a set of complex physical laws that work to make the universe function as it does. At some point, conditions were right on the third planet from a star for simple life to arise. That life evolved, and continues to evolve, and at some point, the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens (that’s us!) appeared. Beyond that, I don’t know. There may be some subjective truth as defined by each person’s experience and perception of the world, but literal truth is the laws of physics. Anything beyond that is what we make of it. As attractive a concept as eternally wise endless beings looking over us would be, there’s no evidence for them, and think it only distracts from deciding and defining our own purpose.

    • FSM rocks! We need more pirates; if the summers get any hotter around here I’m headed for Canada!

      Heh – we get our share of ego-driven pompous jerks (is there a group anywhere that doesn’t?), but I’ve never felt like I couldn’t say “Come on, guys, the emperor is butt-nekkid!” if it really needed saying. Any drafty dictator can declare himself King of his own mountain; getting people to stay on the mountain with him is another matter. And while there are always going to be people who will follow anyone who appears to be leading, most poor leaders will show themselves up to even the most credulous person sooner or later. As for social repercussions, no group has a monopoly on social politics, and some people’s good opinions aren’t worth having.

      On the one hand, I think the general Pagan community does tend to err on the side of leniency because so many of us have experienced intolerance from people in more mainstream belief systems. On the other hand, since a lot of us also gravitate to alternative religions because we want more autonomy, a serious cretin has a hard time staying in a position of influence unless he has enough redeeming features to merit putting up with him.

    • I’m sorry. I hope I’m not misunderstanding you here but… Not one of the people who spoke on this program or any of the Pagans who are speaking through this medium think that their way is the “only way”. It is the only way for each one of us and we are all very different, Funny thing is that not one of us wants the others to walk their path.

      You are atheist. That is your way, please don’t discount my Gods.

      The lone Heathen posting.

      • I was just goofing around really, it was mostly in response to Rebecca who admitted that she was proselytizing. I’ve never met a Pagan who was trying to “convert” me thankfully.

      • ‘sallright.

        I get what most are mad at. I get that kind of thing every day and I’ve learned to nod politely, look at it as practice for them and move on.
        I just was hoping that no one thought we pagans/heathens/witches were trying to “convert” anyone, and was trying to clear that up before it got going good.

  12. Do Christians drink water?

  13. wow , i see in Christian thinking some of the same things , and was called a Heathen by a Baptist because i am Lutheran . i think the Baptist are more like a cult then any pagans, witches or heathens . they use suttle scare tactics , such as threats of hell and you must be saved . i have been told i was going to hell because i am not saved . all because i am Lutheran and not Baptist .

  14. I just find it interesting that it is the Christian here that is considered the offensive one. Her opinions in this forum are no more proselytizing than are the Pagans, Lutherans, Atheist or the Pasta dude. Government should not impose religion but they also should not impede religion. It an individual path that must be respected. The danger is assuming any religion is monolithic. It seems that many on the left go out of their way to paint all Christians as wacko zealots and all Muslim as peaceful and harmless.

    • Gregg,

      No offense, but she admitted to prostelytizing, and that all of us will be condemned if we don’t reconsider our spiritual positions. Granted, she was very polite and articulate about it. It’s nice when attempts to convert come a place of loving senserity. I however, will not be converting back to Christianity, given that I did throw the baby Jesus out with the bath water. I have simply integrated the best of Christian ideals in with what I choose to believe and hold sacred.

      Why not Christianity or any religion for that matter? Limitation… God is entirely too big for one religion by any name or face. Divine Matrix anyone?

      Peace,
      Heather Darnell
      Reclaiming Witch

      • Heather,

        I agree that Rebecca admitted to proselytizing. She’s the only one that admitted it even though everyone else is doing it. That’s my only point. I’m not even a Christian but I can respect her anyway…. you too.

    • a Christian wacko is one that insists American was founded as a Christian nation, Islam is the proverbial red-headed stepchild to the lineage of David, denied their birthright, go figger… .

  15. Of late, I’m getting the impression that everyone is polerizing to whatever their faith is, not in a healthy way. I’m feeling the spiritual climate gearing up for a huge storm of “my way is the only right way”. I have the privilege of knowing a variety of different kinds of people, alot of them Christian, who have been advised of my faith, (and some who have not.) In the course of interaction I have been bombarded with the evangelical message, at an almost constant flow. Being as the majority of these people are family, or close family friends, I try very hard to maintain a balance, and to be considerate of their views and feelings, (for me the same does not apply.)
    I believe this polerization has been borne of a giant fear factor, the economy, terrorism, the crime borne of the economy, the overwhelming consumerism without equal money, I just think people are starving for someone or something to save them. For the majority of Christians they believe that only by proving to the One All Mighty that they were just the best helpers, and that they showed all of these other misguided people the way, that that will save them. (I know this view is clung to by someone very dear to me.)
    It does no good to be mean to these people, we must treat each other with love, if we ever hope to have improvement. They are operating from a fear base, and until they see the importance of a more balanced view, they will not listen to reason.

    • I’m sorry that you are continually barraged by ‘well meaning’ family members. Sometimes people really don’t get it… beating someone over the head with your religion isn’t going to convert them… it will make them run for the door.

      I would like to clarify one statement you made… and I hope your family/friends understand this. Salvation is a gift from God. We (anyone) can ask to foregiveness for our sins and receive forgiveness… there are no amount of good works that will get you into heaven… it all cinches on a relationship with God… the one caveat I would make is that, as people of faith, many feel that they should seek to ‘do better’ or give back or pay it forward… however you want to say it… but salvation itself can’t be earned… we here on earth will never be worthy, because we are imperfect and will always mess up… but there’s always forgiveness waiting for us when we ask.

      • “Sometimes people really don’t get it… beating someone over the head with your religion isn’t going to convert them… it will make them run for the door. ”

        This is true, but the other part of it always seems to be the bit no one wants to understand: the demand that conversion happen being a problem in itself.

        Regardless of mode of delivery (although I do appreciate the ones who at least try to be polite!), the assumption that people must be saved from their own judgment if it diverges from another’s presents as blindly elitist at best and insulting at worst.

        It’s basically saying “your discernment and ability to make value judgments for yourself are faulty and unacceptable; you need to stop thinking for yourself and let someone correct your beliefs”.

        Many of us have experienced loss of friends, family, jobs, and sometimes personal violence or vandalism to follow what we feel our conscience tells us is right, or as many people put it, to be “what I’ve been all my life, but didn’t know what to call it”. To go through that and then have people insist that you cannot be trusted to make decisions for your own life, but they can because they have a superior understanding, comes off as petty and arrogant, regardless of intention.

        To explain it another way, it feels like someone is trying to make you redecorate your house, and they’re doing it in colors and furnishings that you’ve said you don’t like.

  16. To partially quote Rebecca, “we here on earth will never be worthy, because we are imperfect and will always mess up…”, therein, in my opinion, lies the underlying problem. Christians say they have been created in Gods’ image and all Gods’ creations are perfect. (?) Really? Perfect imperfection maybe? One could go literally nuts trying to resolve that one, much like which came first, the chicken or the egg?

    With over 30,000 different and distinct denominations within Christianity, each claiming to be the “one TRUE belief”, just which ONE of you is actually correct? Beliefs are nothing more than that, beliefs. Mine, yours’, another persons’, etc. A radio host I used to listen to frequently had as his tag line, “Know what you believe, and WHY you believe it.” Much truth in that little phrase however, few seem to really have a good grasp and/or understanding on just what it is they DO believe in or why.

    Most religions out there hold power over their followers via fear and superstition. Religion is about power and control after all. Most Pagans I am familiar with refer to themselves as “Spiritual” as opposed to religious. Organized religion as we know it today has single handedly been responsible for more murder and mayhem in the name of some all-loving God figure than all other causes combined. Look at the present day in the Middle East. Those folks have been fighting over who’s right and who’s wrong for millennia. Get over yourselves already.

    I was raised in the Southern Baptist beliefs but fell out with that system for a number of reason we shall not go into here. Suffice it to say, I am Pagan today and have been affiliated with the North Carolina Piedmont Church of Wicca for over 10 years now. I’ve seen a lot of so-called leaders of other groups come and go as well. I subscribe to no particular set of beliefs or structure but choose to follow my own instincts. The “Pagan” beliefs far pre-date the Christian beliefs by many thousands of years. Remember that the word “Pagan” once meant “One who lives in the country.” It was changed by Christianity in one of the fear mongering moves to try to convert those people into Christians. Pretty much, “believe as WE tell you or our God tells us to kill you.” Sorry, I’ll pass on that one.

  17. I find this to be an interesting conversation, and some valid points have been made to ponder. Rebecca, I do believe your heart is in the right place. I personally believe and have watched and learned from what I’ve seen and come to feel in my heart that the soul’s growth, (evolution ofo soul, not Darwin) is too big for a single interpretation of Higher Power. Every single person on this world has an individual questing for wholeness, and they each have their own guides and ways of getting there. To say that as long as I am working for my highest spiritual good/actualization, the way I’ve been show by Diety, that I’m doing it wrong and that I flirt with eternal damnation is demeaning. It undermines what we should all be doing which is lifting everyone to their Highest Good.

    To be frank on more than one occasion I have been completely offended by what some of my family and friends have said in the name of “love”.
    Being as they are of a completely different generation, and understanding that they were motivated by a spirit of love I’ve let it go. They are no more likely to change their views, than I am to change mine.
    That being said, I do out of curiousity, (and not being flip, because I don’t mean to be) the forgiveness clause you speak of. Knowing human nature as we all do, what if a person habitually “messes up”? I know the forgiveness clause works on the principle that they feel repentance in their heart, but they continually do it again and again always with the repentance after the fact. How would the forgiveness factor work then, because said person always has the option to desist from said action beforehand or if it is truly an addiction to seek help. But say said person continues on doing the “sin” and feeling bad about it after, how would that be addressed? This is something that I have always wondered, but none of my people can really be asked about it. I know you can only speak generally, you don’t have to get anymore specific than you would want.

    • Great question… And I am by no means an expert, so this is just my personal opinion and that way I see things… although I think it might be a common school of thought regarding forgiveness… So if this ‘sin’ is something you continually struggle with and each time you do it and feel horrible and ask for forgiveness, you are forgiven. The catch might be if you go into saying… well, I can do this and ask forgiveness later, you might have a problem. And if there’s a real problem that someone struggles with – say adultery, since most people would say this is wrong – and they keep on doing it, then feeling like crap, ask for forgiveness but do it again and again… then I would council them to seek a therapist’s help to figure out why they keep stumbling in this way… it would just be logical to me that there is a bigger issue at work here.
      The other thing I would say is that, in my opinion, what constitutes a sin is quite clear (the ten commandments) and Jesus gave 2 commandments (Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself). But no one here on earth should sit in judgment of any other persons ‘sin’. My sin is between me and God and so is yours. I think Christians all too often condemn, when that is not their role.
      Does that answer your question? I think I may have rambled… I hope my opinion is clear.

      • Well it does, in as much as I think it can really be answered. I come from the school personally that no one knows their own inner workings completely, and we should all really “tend to our own gardens and leave others to theirs.” You give a good view, I think, but I was truly asking, (though, reviewing my question, I’m sure I didn’t make it clear, my bad.) How long can a sinner, though repentant to whatever extent, continue to bank on the forgiveness of your God? I mean, if the person continually does whatever it is, yet feel remorseful for it. I ask this kind of out of a morbid fascination, because I see people struggle with this, the sinner and the sinnee, and it just the assumption that it can go on indefinately. But really, how long before it is unforgivable for God.
        Side note, I was raised in a Christian enviroment, and my understanding is, that the 10 commandments were made obsolete by Jesus and his two commandments were the replacement. The 10 commandments were actually only in force for the Isrealites until the Messiah arrived.

        Rebecca, I do thank you for taking the time to share your views with me by the way.

      • On your side note, my understanding is that Jesus upheld the 10 commandments (ref. Mark 10:19) by referring to these and also gave the other two regarding love. I think what was made obsolete were the old laws that the Jews upheld (if I am correct, there were more than 600 of these). I’ll try to find the reference to those being ‘abolished’ for lack of a better word.

        On the other questions, there is no limit to how often God will forgive us. That doesn’t mean he wants us to keep doing it, but He will forgive us each time we do. From what I have learned, the only unforgivable sin is permanently rejecting Christ/God… although I’m not sure how you do this… it’s not like you can just say I don’t believe in you and that’s it because many have said this and changed their minds… It’s a murky thing to me. But I do know that all other sin is forgivable indefinitely.

  18. I think that what most of us are saying is… We have found our path for right now, and you have found yours. Let’s just live in peace and understand that everyone has to come to terms with Divinity in whatever form they find it. Let me have my relationship with “God” and you have yours.

  19. Rebecca,
    I do want to thank you for taking the time to answer. It has been enjoyable being able to find out what the understanding was on that topic for Christians, though I know many, there isn’t really a way to get into an discussion, without expectations or emotions clouding it.
    It’s been refreshing to get someone else’s view.


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